Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:34:00 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #20 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: On military pay and martial arts (Jesse Segovia) 2. Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO (Christopher Spiller) 3. Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO (Lee Morgan) 4. Visiting Korea (J R Hilland) 5. Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO (Christopher Spiller) 6. Re: Visiting Korea (Ray) 7. Quality TKD Video (Jerry) 8. Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO (Ray) 9. Re: Quality TKD Video (Ray) 10. Re: Visiting Korea (Ray) 11. everyday tools for training (Jye nigma) 12. Re: Quality TKD Video (Jye nigma) 13. Re: Visiting Korea (Beth Hicks) 14. RE: On military pay and martial arts (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:42:11 -0500 From: "Jesse Segovia" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: On military pay and martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ken McDonough wrote: > I spent 25 years in the military, re: Navy and Air Force. Worked 2 > assignments > with the Army. Ken, thanks very much for your service to my country and to myself and my family. We honor the commitment soldiers make on our behalf. Yes, perhaps in tough times there are some benefits to working for the government but the military is not the DMV or the IRS. Iraq and Afghanistan should remind all of us that nothing will ever repay the sacrifice soldiers make, or are willing to make, for all of us. And I would love to see pics of the new gym/car shop. Are you going to be practicing your kicks on fenders and doors, or lat pull-downs using engine blocks for weights? :) Jesse --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:48:19 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > The further away one drinks from the source, the more > stagnet the > > water becomes. What I see is a further and further > from the source. > > [Rick] OK - so if I want to get TKD from the source I need > to go to Japan > and train in Shotokan, and if I want to go even closer to > the source I'll go > to Okinawa and train in the line of Itosu. If you're going to go back to Itosu why not continue farther back and study Chinese Chuan Fa? That way you're even closer to the source since there is a southern Chinese connection to Okinawan karate. Pax, Chris --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:36:42 -0500 From: Lee Morgan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sandra, I would be interested to know where you think TKD came from. Do you believe it's actually a 2000 Korean martial art? If that's the case, then here are some things you may want to look in to. Why did TKD stylist practice Shotokan and Shito Ryu kata up until 1968? Why doesn't the Mo Ye Do Bo Tong Ji mention TKD (actually, some WTF people have recently re-translated this document and have replaced the word kwon bob with TKD!!! if you can believe it! Now, they've also changed their "history of TKD" web page to say that TKD has been called many things over the last 5000 years---but this is a slightly new angle they're taking now)? Look in to what TKD was called prior to April, 1955---then look up the meaning of that word----then look up the old meaning of the kanji that is pronounced Kara Te (the kanji used prior to 1900). Look in to where dojang etiquette comes from (TKD and Hapkido). See if other Korean styles have the same rules of etiquette---then see which country's martial styles have an almost identical etiquette. Looking at this will open up much more information for you. Don't get me wrong Sandra, I love TKD and I practice at least once everyday--usually more. TKD has the potential to be one of the most effective martial styles in the world, but it's not taught that way---especially by the Kukkiwon----who don't seem to be Martial oriented. After training there myself a few times, I believe that this is because most of these Grandmasters haven't been trained in a true martial way---but most people who begin their training under them don't know the difference. In order for TKD to become the effective martial style it could be, we as TKD practitioners HAVE to look at TKD realistically. The Kukkiwon/WTF definitely is NOT helping in this area. If you choose to honestly look in to some of these issues, then remember this----if we are to look at TKD as it is (in order to improve it), then there is NO room for National or racial prejudice (some may want to call this "national pride", but it amounts to the same thing in the history of TKD). With respect, Lee Morgan From: "edandmikes" To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:06:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KOREA AND TAE KWON DO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey! How many of you would travel to Korea if you could? How many of you can have your picture taken in the Kukkiwon The root of modern and traditionalTae Kwon Do ? Do you wish to be there? The further away one drinks from the source, the more stagnet the water becomes. What I see is a further and further from the source. Sandra Tomlinson 3rd Dan World Tae Kwon Do Federation Grand Master Douglas Cho New Jersey --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:32:22 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Visiting Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a hapkidoin, we just waived at the kukkiwon when we drove by it. For me personally, one of the highlights of visiting Korea is indeed the culture. Yes, I can say I have been to the kidohwe, but honestly I didn't care for Seoul that much. Luckily, the roots of hapkido are in the south part of the country in the mountains, a beautiful place. You could easily spend months traveling to all the temples and seeing all the sights south of Seoul, yet the country is only about as big as the state of Indiana. The biggest highlight for me was visiting the grave of the founder of hapkido in Taegu and having my wrist grabbed by the most senior person in hapkido, Master Kim Jung Soo, who has been a hapkidoin longer than anyone else alive (who still practices and teaches the art). He even has the oldest hapkido dojang on the planet. Just to clarify any controversy concerning that statement, he is the 8th student of Choi Young Sul and the only one of the first 10 students still practicing hapkido (only 1 and 8 are still alive). Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com 30th International Hapkido & KMA Clinic March 13, 14 and 15, 2009 www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:42:37 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hey! How many of you would travel to Korea if you could? I'd love to go to Korea. From what I have seen it looks like a beautiful country. > How many of you can > have your picture taken in the Kukkiwon The root of > modern and > traditionalTae Kwon Do ? Do you wish to be there? I have no wish to visit the Kukkiwon. Nor is it the "root of ... traditional Tae Kwon Do," in any real sense. If you're talking about an actual physical location for that the closest bet would be the headquarters of the various Kwans. For me, I'd head out to Cheju Do to see the recently refurbished monument Gen. Choi had built there while heading the 29th infantry division. That's the root of the Oh Do Kwan and that's what I'd want to see. If possible I'd also do some training with the KITF, which is the ITF body in South Korea. The ITF is experiencing some growth in the ROK after being gone for so long. > The further away one drinks from the source, the more > stagnet the water > becomes. What I see is a further and further from the > source. Well, that can certainly be the case. It seems to be what happened to the Kukkiwon, after all ;-) Pax, Chris > Sandra Tomlinson > 3rd Dan > World Tae Kwon Do Federation > Grand Master Douglas Cho > New Jersey --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Visiting Korea Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:06:27 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Did Gm Jung pass? He is #10 and was alive, well and active not too long ago. Jung is one of the few that are actually senior to Gm Ji (#14). Ray On Jan 14, 2009, at 1:32 PM, J R Hilland wrote: > the > 8th student of Choi Young Sul and the only one of the first 10 > students > still practicing hapkido (only 1 and 8 are still alive). --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:15:00 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Jerry Subject: [The_Dojang] Quality TKD Video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mel, this was just incredibly awesome to watch, it reminded me a lot more of how I did sparring class vs. what we see now in the Olympics. Jerry >Quality TKD Video >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Came across this on youtube: > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y3-STuMbVE&feature=related > >This is from back when Olympic TKD was more than bouncing, when the >IR's wore canary, when they used quality technique, timing and skill >instead of negative match management. > >Take care, >Mel >(Jye wannabe) > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin It's also true that those who would give up privacy for security are likely to end up with neither. It's not the years in your life that count, but the life in your years" "Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional" "Without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement and success have no meaning." - Benjamin Franklin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KOREA AND TAE KWON DO Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:35:09 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry Sandra. I guess you touched a nerve... :) Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Quality TKD Video Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:33:32 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Excellent stuff! Even goes back to before headgear, which I prefer (and have the brain damage to prove it). Ray > Came across this on youtube: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y3-STuMbVE&feature=related > > This is from back when Olympic TKD was more than bouncing, when the > IR's wore canary, when they used quality technique, timing and skill > instead of negative match management. > > Take care, > Mel --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Visiting Korea Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:03:15 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Now would be a great time for Master Hilland to visit Korea. Its gotta be warmer there than where he is... Ray --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:45:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] everyday tools for training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a little something I wrote to share some everyday household items I've trained with over the years:   http://urbanwarrior.ning.com/forum/topics/everyday-tools-for-training   Jye --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:47:29 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Quality TKD Video To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't like headgear either. The ear holes seem to amplify the surrounding sound which throws me off a bit, especially in a large gymnasium where the sound echoes.   Jye --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Ray wrote: From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Quality TKD Video To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 8:33 PM Excellent stuff! Even goes back to before headgear, which I prefer (and have the brain damage to prove it). Ray > Came across this on youtube: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y3-STuMbVE&feature=related > > This is from back when Olympic TKD was more than bouncing, when the IR's wore canary, when they used quality technique, timing and skill instead of negative match management. > > Take care, > Mel _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:55:25 +0900 From: "Beth Hicks" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Visiting Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i dunno... it's cold as hell here.. ha ha i'm just dying! (this coming from a pure desert mouse) On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Ray wrote: > Now would be a great time for Master Hilland to visit Korea. Its gotta be > warmer there than where he is... > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] On military pay and martial arts Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:32:56 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. McDonough, Sincerely, I appreciate the sacrifice of our volunteer military. Eglin AFB is only about 30 minutes from my home. I hear the "sound of freedom" every day. I don't doubt that some military jobs are difficult just as some jobs are difficult in the private sector. With that said, few of them involve me leaving my family for extended periods of time or getting shot at. My father retired in 1972 because they were going to send him back to Vietnam for his fourth or fifth war tour (Korea before that). As he told me, a person has an obligation to serve their country, but 4-5 tours into war zone and 20+ years was enough. The positive side was he was taught skills that he took into the private sector and left with lifetime medical and retirement. Also left him with a lifetime of hearing damage. Don't know of any private sector jobs where a fella can work 20 years and draw lifetime retirement and fairly inexpensive medical coverage. My email simply meant to be an example that the media has a lot of people scared that SHOULD be in better financial position. A military person should be in better shape now than they were in 2004 when the building boom really hit the highest. An E5 with 10 years would have made $38K (with housing and subsistence pay). As an E5 with 14 years, today they'd make $47K. If they test up to E6, they'd make $53K. So cost of homes is down 25-50%, interest is low, and they make 24-39% more money. I consider that to be in better financial position now than they were 4 years ago. Looks like the dollar has lost about 10-13% of its value in the last 4-5 years so they still have a net gain of 11-29% in pay. Now, if a military family got transferred here in 2004 and bought a home and get orders out now...they'll probably owe thousands on their home more than what they can sell it for. That bites. Didn't see the picture - please resend the link. In those 25 years, what arts and places did you get to train? Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 17-19, 2009 www.GordonMartialArts.com/new/2009-0419 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest