Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:11:02 +0100 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #31 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Guhapdo/Iaido (was Re: Doju Choi 9th dans) (Chris LaCava) 2. S.O.L. - "Sake out of luck" (Chris LaCava) 3. Re: Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO (Rick Clark) 4. RE: S.O.L. - "Sake out of luck" (michael tomlinson) 5. Re: Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO (Ray) 6. RE: Grip Strength (Stovall, Craig) 7. GM Lim & Iaido (jason white) 8. Re: This and that (Beungood8@aol.com) 9. Re: GM Lim & Iaido (Ray) 10. RE: RE: Grip Strength (sinmoohapkido hanwangsoolkwan) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Chris LaCava To: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:36:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Guhapdo/Iaido (was Re: Doju Choi 9th dans) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Posted by Chris Spiller - "I was wondeirng if you have had the opportunity to discuss with Grand Master Lim his reasoning for studing Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu?" I haven't, but it's a great question. I just emailed GM Lim asking him. I'll let y'all know what I get back? Posted by Chris Spiller - "Also does his style of Chung Suk Guhapdo consist only of drawing and countering skills a la Iaido or does it consist also of more kenjutsu-like techniques (focusing on more general swordsmanship)." I am not familiar with styles of Kenjutsu, but from my limited knowledge I woud say, yes it does contain Kenjutsu-like techniques. Just so I am on the same page, would you define "general swordsmanship." I appreciate it. Chris LaCava Christopher LaCava, M.S., L.Ac. Acupuncture Center of Westport http://www.LaCavaAcupuncture.com President, Connecticut Society of Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine http://www.csaom.org LaCava's Martial ArtsWestport, CT.http://lmaa.bravepages.comOnline Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Chris LaCava To: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:04:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] S.O.L. - "Sake out of luck" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> You let me know next time you're up in my neck of the woods brotha. Chris Christopher LaCava,M.S., L.Ac. Acupuncture Center of Westport http://www.LaCavaAcupuncture.com President, Connecticut Society of Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine http://www.csaom.org LaCava's Martial ArtsWestport, CT.http://lmaa.bravepages.comOnline Store- http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_01200 9 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:11:14 -0600 (CST) From: Rick Clark Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Ray wrote: >> I had a look at the clip, and really did not see anything there that  > was > far removed from kicks I have seen Karate-ka doing in the past.  In  > fact > if you look at Nakayama's book Dynamic Karate you will see basicly the > same kicks.  Sure there may be a littele difference but by and large  > the > techniques are there. You need to see how they are applied to an opponent.  I have the books + the videos + friends in Shotokan, some new, some since the 1960s.  The basic kicks of Sung Moo Kwan & Sin Moo Hapkido are for the most part very different than those from Karate and from those in TKD.  Maybe 1/3 are similar, but with a different delivery.  The other 2/3 are not at all similar.  e.g. kick #11, a single kick to the shins/knees of potentially multiple opponents. I think we are probably saying the same thing - or at least we would be if we were in the same room talking face to face, rather than over a keyboard. My point is the angle and direction and mechanics of the kicks appear to be about the same. Sure there can be some differences in the target selection, and the striking surface may be different, but, there are only so many ways you can move your body (leg). > I think if you look back at the old style TKD you will see there is  > not > much difference between early TKD and Shotokan - because they were the > same thing. Has anyone disagreed with that?  No.  But at some point we must progress beyond the 50s. I guess this is the rub for me Ray, some may see steps forward and others may see it as stepping back. I guess I am just one of those guys that really don't care for the "sport" of TKD the way it has been going forward. Sparring with hands droppe for example. I think we've been discussing what influences came along later that made TKD different from Karate-do.  As mentioned, one obvious difference is the emphasis on kicking to the head.  Yes it is possible for a JKA stylist to kick to the head, but they seldom will (perhaps wisely). From what I see in Shotokan and other Japanese styles high kicks have not been unusual, but in your area perhaps things are done a bit different. Another is the realization that "one punch, one kill" is, for the most part, a fallacy. One of the things I have seen is that breaking demo's seem to emphisize the "power" of the technique and the devistaiton that it can cause on the unfofturante attacker of a well trained martial artist. So the "one punch, one kill" idea is still there - even if it may be only the the back of the head of the instructor (or students). The focus on full-contact continuous sparring was the outcome. Not having been in the tournament circuit for quite sometime I can only recall how tough the contact was in the past, or for that matter how heavy it was back in Korea in the 60's. But yes I do agree that there is a focus on continuous sparring, but from what I have seen of it I am not real fond of it. Rick Clark Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net   _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net   Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net   --__--__-- Message: 4 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] S.O.L. - "Sake out of luck" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:50:13 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris, I will definately look you up whenever I get back to the northeast...we can beat the crap out of each other and then go get some Korean BBQ ribs and sake like the last time...hooyah!! Michael Tomlinson > From: hapkido8@hotmail.com> To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:04:10 -0500> Subject: [The_Dojang] S.O.L. - "Sake out of luck"> > < Tomlinson>>> > You let me know next time you're up in my neck of the woods brotha.> > Chris> > Christopher LaCava,M.S., L.Ac.> Acupuncture Center of Westport> http://www.LaCavaAcupuncture.com> > President, Connecticut Society of Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine> http://www.csaom.org> > LaCava's Martial ArtsWestport, CT.http://lmaa.bravepages.comOnline Store-> http://www.cafepress.com/hapkidogear> _________________________________________________________________> Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_01200> 9> _______________________________________________> The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members> The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net> Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource> Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: KOREA AND TAE KWON DO Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:02:02 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I think we are probably saying the same thing - or at least we would > be > if we were in the same room talking face to face, rather than over a > keyboard. My point is the angle and direction and mechanics of the > kicks appear to be about the same. Sure there can be some differences > in the target selection, and the striking surface may be different, > but, > there are only so many ways you can move your body (leg). Well, imho, the kicks of Karate-do are not a complete catalog the possible ways that one can move a body or a leg. The kicks are just different and are -perhaps- not part of Karate-do since they might be mistakenly taken as weak techniques. I admit that I was surprised to see the difference when I first learned them. > I guess this is the rub for me Ray, some may see steps forward and > others may see it as stepping back. I guess I am just one of those > guys > that really don't care for the "sport" of TKD the way it has been > going > forward. Sparring with hands droppe for example. Personally, save for the lack of hand techniques to the head, I very much like the evolution of Korean full-contact sparring... up thru the 1970s (+ or -). Movement away from lack of contact and the point-sparring seen in Karate-do was a very positive change, imho, and it showed that the techniques were not so completely devastating as to kill with a single punch or kick when the opponent was actively moving and defending. Ray --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:04:30 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Grip Strength Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Grip strength is an interesting subject, and one that you'd think would come up more often in martial arts related discussions. I've long held the belief that anyone with a strong grip is hell to deal with regardless of any training they might have had. My progression looks something like the following... Strong grip = bad@$$ Strong grip + strong posterior chain = super bad@$$ Strong grip + strong posterior chain + martial arts training = super duper bad@$$ Or, something like that...point is, strong grip = strong man (or gal). Weak grip = I'm not so sure. Some ideas and some things that have worked for me: Captains of Crush Grippers - these have long been the gold standard for grip trainers. High quality and standard calibration. They'll last forever, and the different difficulty levels give you an objective measure of your strength and how much you've improved. At around $20+s/h per unit, I think they're a great and affordable way to start building basic hand strength. Plate Pinches - work best with Olympic Style plates. Put two of them together by placing the smooth sides out (grooved out sides facing each other), and pick them up by pinching them together between your thumb and fingers. From there, hold them for time, pass them from hand to hand, pass them around the body or through the legs, and even curl them. Plate pinch curls are murder on the hands and wrists. Two 10lbs plates are a good starting point. Two 25's plates are respectable. When you get to the 35's and 45's you've really got some hand strength going, imo. These are a good complement to grippers since the grippers don't hit the thumb as well...these do. Rope climbing - old school upper body conditioning and very challenging to the grip for obvious reasons. Rope climbing is a good pull movement to complement any pushing movements that you're doing as part of an upper body calisthenics or weight training program. The grip aspect is very severe, and this often gives out before the arm strength does. Pull-up variations - towel pullups are very challenging to the grip. Drape a towel over a pull-up bar or the top bar on a power rack...grab both ends of the towel and start doing pull-ups. This is a great complement to any art that has you grabbing the gi (judo, jiujitsu, etc). Doing pull-ups with only the fingers (all four, or less) is also a hardcore hand strengthener. Tennis ball pull-ups have also become popular in the last few years with MMA fighters. This involves using a specialized handle shaped like a small ball that you attach to your pull-up bar, or holding an actual tennis ball in your hand that you then wedge over the top of the pull-up bar itself. Weight training - good old weight training is taxing on the grip. The deadlift being the most severe in terms of grip, as well as being a great overall body developer. Full deadlifts from the floor will develop the grip, but also doing partial range of motion pulls in the power rack from knee height or above is a great way to train and stimulate the grip. Thick bar work with a 2" or 3" diameter bar can be added for even greater effect. In fact, thick bar work (pressing, pulling, curling, etc) is probably the greatest overall developer for hands, wrists, and forearms. That's probably a good "one stop shopping" option for those who like weights, and don't have a lot of time to train every little thing. Kettlebells - while not a specific grip tool, per se, they do present a challenge to the hands. This is especially true if you get the thicker handled version like Dragondoor sells. The GoFit models that they now sell at Dick's are also cast from a similar mold. I can't speak for the new "competition bells" that are coming out now, but I think those handles are much thinner. Swinging, cleaning, snatching, or curling a thick handled kettlebell is a great grip developer as well as a great overall body conditioner. Sandbag training - another great overall body developer is sandbag work, but it's especially good for the hands since you have to pick it up by gripping the loose fabric of the bag. Another one that is useful for those who train in a gi gripping art. Strongman variations - this includes Farmer's Walks, barrel lifting, and assorted odd lifts that tax the grip as well as the major muscle groups involved. Jye mentioned the picking up of PC's and carrying them. That's actually a cool modern variation of the old Okinawan practice of picking up wide mouth jugs filled with water or sand by the lip of the mouth and carrying them or holding onto them while practicing stances, kicks, etc. Lots of ideas out there...just takes creativity and a little hard work. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information which is the property of Nucor, intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized use or disclosure of this information is prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, please immediately notify Nucor and destroy any copies of this email. Receipt of this e-mail shall not be deemed a waiver by Nucor of any privilege or the confidential nature of the information. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: jason white To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Lim & Iaido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM Lim says that Choi, Yong Sool said that Hapkido & Swordsmanship go hand in hand. I've heard that before joining the JungKiKwan. Many of the Hapkido motions are very similar. When we go to Korea we do 2 hours of HKD & 2 hours of Iaido.   Jason White Iron Dragon Martial Arts www.WarriorVideos.Net taekwonhapki@yahoo.com   --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:56:08 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: This and that Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/20/2009 11:33:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Message: 11 From: michael tomlinson To: Dojang Digest Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: this and that... Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:56:40 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Jack..how many times approx. do you think you have landed on the "big red monster mat", in Quincy during Master Whalen's HKD classes???? Michael Tomlinson Hey Mike, That's one thing I've never thought about! I started there in 1986, so it would have to be in the many thousands. It's this fact that get's me a warm greeting by the Chiropractor and massage therapist. I think it would be easier to put a number on how many times Both master Whalen and master Mcarty have thrown me onto concrete,wood floors and grassy fields... 2 many!!!! **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM Lim & Iaido Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:59:15 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ueshiba said the same of Aikido. Ray On Jan 20, 2009, at 1:00 PM, jason white wrote: > GM Lim says that Choi, Yong Sool said that Hapkido & Swordsmanship > go hand in > hand. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: sinmoohapkido hanwangsoolkwan To: ray terry Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grip Strength Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:15:07 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I like the following suggestions as to technique for grip strengthening. They are very helpful. My second teacher, a Vietnamese, had me carry two 5-gallon water bottles. First, they were empty and, secondly, small pebbles were gradually added, as I walked back and forth across the dojang. My school motto, on the back of the "Wang Sool Hap Ki Kwan" ball caps exclaim, "Get A Grip!" Thank you very much, Mr. Stovall. Sincerely, Sabumnim King - Korean Sin Moo Hapkido > From: Craig.Stovall@nucor.com > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:04:30 -0600 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Grip Strength > > Grip strength is an interesting subject, and one that you'd think would > come up more often in martial arts related discussions. I've long held > the belief that anyone with a strong grip is hell to deal with > regardless of any training they might have had. My progression looks > something like the following... > > > > Strong grip = bad@$$ > > Strong grip + strong posterior chain = super bad@$$ > > Strong grip + strong posterior chain + martial arts training = super > duper bad@$$ > > > > Or, something like that...point is, strong grip = strong man (or gal). > Weak grip = I'm not so sure. > > > > Some ideas and some things that have worked for me: > > > > Captains of Crush Grippers - these have long been the gold standard for > grip trainers. High quality and standard calibration. They'll last > forever, and the different difficulty levels give you an objective > measure of your strength and how much you've improved. At around > $20+s/h per unit, I think they're a great and affordable way to start > building basic hand strength. > > > > Plate Pinches - work best with Olympic Style plates. Put two of them > together by placing the smooth sides out (grooved out sides facing each > other), and pick them up by pinching them together between your thumb > and fingers. From there, hold them for time, pass them from hand to > hand, pass them around the body or through the legs, and even curl them. > Plate pinch curls are murder on the hands and wrists. Two 10lbs plates > are a good starting point. Two 25's plates are respectable. When you > get to the 35's and 45's you've really got some hand strength going, > imo. These are a good complement to grippers since the grippers don't > hit the thumb as well...these do. > > > > Rope climbing - old school upper body conditioning and very challenging > to the grip for obvious reasons. Rope climbing is a good pull movement > to complement any pushing movements that you're doing as part of an > upper body calisthenics or weight training program. The grip aspect is > very severe, and this often gives out before the arm strength does. > > > > Pull-up variations - towel pullups are very challenging to the grip. > Drape a towel over a pull-up bar or the top bar on a power rack...grab > both ends of the towel and start doing pull-ups. This is a great > complement to any art that has you grabbing the gi (judo, jiujitsu, > etc). Doing pull-ups with only the fingers (all four, or less) is also > a hardcore hand strengthener. Tennis ball pull-ups have also become > popular in the last few years with MMA fighters. This involves using a > specialized handle shaped like a small ball that you attach to your > pull-up bar, or holding an actual tennis ball in your hand that you then > wedge over the top of the pull-up bar itself. > > > > Weight training - good old weight training is taxing on the grip. The > deadlift being the most severe in terms of grip, as well as being a > great overall body developer. Full deadlifts from the floor will > develop the grip, but also doing partial range of motion pulls in the > power rack from knee height or above is a great way to train and > stimulate the grip. Thick bar work with a 2" or 3" diameter bar can be > added for even greater effect. In fact, thick bar work (pressing, > pulling, curling, etc) is probably the greatest overall developer for > hands, wrists, and forearms. That's probably a good "one stop shopping" > option for those who like weights, and don't have a lot of time to train > every little thing. > > > > Kettlebells - while not a specific grip tool, per se, they do present a > challenge to the hands. This is especially true if you get the thicker > handled version like Dragondoor sells. The GoFit models that they now > sell at Dick's are also cast from a similar mold. I can't speak for the > new "competition bells" that are coming out now, but I think those > handles are much thinner. Swinging, cleaning, snatching, or curling a > thick handled kettlebell is a great grip developer as well as a great > overall body conditioner. > > > > Sandbag training - another great overall body developer is sandbag work, > but it's especially good for the hands since you have to pick it up by > gripping the loose fabric of the bag. Another one that is useful for > those who train in a gi gripping art. > > > > Strongman variations - this includes Farmer's Walks, barrel lifting, and > assorted odd lifts that tax the grip as well as the major muscle groups > involved. > > > > Jye mentioned the picking up of PC's and carrying them. That's actually > a cool modern variation of the old Okinawan practice of picking up wide > mouth jugs filled with water or sand by the lip of the mouth and > carrying them or holding onto them while practicing stances, kicks, etc. > > > > Lots of ideas out there...just takes creativity and a little hard work. > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information which is the > property of Nucor, intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). > Unauthorized use or disclosure of this information is prohibited. If you are > not an intended recipient, please immediately notify Nucor and destroy any > copies of this email. Receipt of this e-mail shall not be deemed a waiver by > Nucor of any privilege or the confidential nature of the information. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_ 012009 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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