Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 02:48:22 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #124 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Current Kukkiwon dan prices (Ray) 2. Re: Current Kukkiwon dan prices (Jye nigma) 3. Jang Bong Sul - Korean Fighting Staff Skills (mdealba@comcast.net) 4. Re: Current Kukkiwon dan prices (Ray) 5. 'Master' level Kukkiwon fees (Donald) 6. Re: Current Kukkiwon dan prices (Jye nigma) 7. RE: Current Kukkiwon dan prices (Curt McCauley) 8. Re: Current Kukkiwon dan prices (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 14:55:59 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Similar to a college degree, it can help you greatly, assuming you want to teach martial arts full or part-time. True you can simply buy a master's cert or print one up, but you can also do likewise with a college degree. You still gotta be able to walk the talk. Ray On May 7, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > Interesting points, but now list the things you can do with a master > level > Black Belt --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 18:58:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I hear ya, but if I say I have a degree in computer networking then for me walking the walk and talking the talking is doing stuff like configuring routers, servers, laying out topologies, etc. What is walking the walk and talking the talk in terms of a black belt certificate?   For this example, a degree in networking can translate over to me working on anyones network, but the same isn't true of a black belt certificate I don't think. If I have the equilavent of an advanced black belt in TKD that doesn't mean too much in the realm of say kung fu. So I think at best the bb can possibly secure a teaching position within the realm of that federation (schools running under them) and possibly some jobs like security, bouncer, maybe law enforcement? Just a few thoughts.   Jye --- On Thu, 5/7/09, Ray wrote: From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 5:55 PM Similar to a college degree, it can help you greatly, assuming you want to teach martial arts full or part-time. True you can simply buy a master's cert or print one up, but you can also do likewise with a college degree. You still gotta be able to walk the talk. Ray --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 05:22:12 +0000 (UTC) From: mdealba@comcast.net To: "Digest, Dojang" Subject: [The_Dojang] Jang Bong Sul - Korean Fighting Staff Skills Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Normal 0 Normal 0 Greeting fellow Musa, As promised, here is our latest offering on Korean weapon training. We have been busy working a several new tapes. We just put up a couple preview clips on the new FMS Jang Bong Sul – Korean Fighting Staff DVD’s we recently released. These preview clips were a little hard to make, simply because we had so much awesome footage, and we just couldn’t decide which clips to use. Right now they are on youtube, and later we'll put better versions of them on our website. Those files are MUCH larger, and will take longer to download. They also give you a better picture, so, anyway. In the meantime, you can check them out on youtube at: Korean Fighting Staff Preview 001 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp-k1WOnxIc Korean Fighting Staff Preview 002 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNZvOfpHbY Hope you all enjoy. Farang!!! With brotherhood, Kuk Sa Nim **CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE** This email communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the designated recipient named above. Distribution reproduction or any other use of this transmission by any party other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender and delete all copies. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:32:44 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Showing a very similar level of competence. I used to recruit computer science college students for a major computer company. After twenty years working in the computer industry I was shocked to see how little even the best graduating students new about the subject/industry. We see something similar in black belts. An inexperienced first or second dan will typically seem to be very lacking when compared to someone that is a sixth+ dan and has 30+ years in the art in question. imho Ray On May 7, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > I hear ya, but if I say I have a degree in computer networking then > for me > walking the walk and talking the talking is doing stuff like > configuring > routers, servers, laying out topologies, etc. What is walking the > walk and > talking the talk in terms of a black belt certificate? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Donald" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:55:42 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] 'Master' level Kukkiwon fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am not a fan of the WTF, their 'style', organization, or Olympic-style 'sport' TKD. However, regarding their testing fees for higher BB levels, to quote the late lamented Clara Peller, "Where's the beef?" As was pointed out, in today's world the fees are not really exorbitant compared to other costs around us. Haven't heard of anyone being forced to test in the upper BB levels. If the WTF, and their Dan testing fees don't float your boat, then simply don't play their game - your choice. And honestly, even in McDojang belt-mills, how many people will ever have to worry about the 6th through 9th dan fees anyway? My understanding of TKD dan levels has always been that 8th and 9th dans were mostly honorary levels for one's service to the promotion of TKD, yes? I do see Jye's point about 'practical' value of dan rank, but isn't that true of everything we do in the MA's? We put our time, sweat, blood, [and for us 'old dogs', aches and pains ] into an art we perceive to be of value to us, and are therefore willing to pay the costs entailed, monetarily and bodily. Just my 2 cents worth - just in time for the US postage increase LOL! pil seung, Don Ross [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon1.gif] --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:49:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net no doubt, but what that illustrations is also illustrating is a lack of experience. Some people have degrees (depending on the institution) simply because they have a talent for memorization and recalling what was remembered; but the were bad because they lacked experience in a real world situation. Well now apply that to the martial arts. What would be the equivalent? A person who passes the test for high BB because they have a talent for memorizing history, principles, moves, etc. But when it comes to the real world situation how will they do? Now this brings me to a very important point. What are people training for? if a person is learning a martial art, they should be able to defend themselves at the least. If a person is paying big bucks for a martial arts certification then that individual should be able to at least effectively defend themselves using what they learned.   So in taking your example, a low level BB should be able to defend themselves pretty well, but an advanced BB should be able to do so extremely well in my opinion. Now if this was true then I'd be all for paying big bucks because you're basically investing in something that has practical uses. Defend one's self, family, friends, etc is definitely a practical use. The reality of it from what I've seen from some individuals is that they get an advanced BB and are sometimes lacking in actual skills needed to fight, defend in an unrehearsed manner. Sure it's good to be able to recite history, principles, philosophies etc and 30 years of that will make someone an excellent source for those things, but what's the use of dishing out big bucks to get a cert from a place that's not teaching quality material that can save a person's life? just my opinion of course.   Jye --- On Fri, 5/8/09, Ray wrote: From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Friday, May 8, 2009, 12:32 AM Showing a very similar level of competence. I used to recruit computer science college students for a major computer company. After twenty years working in the computer industry I was shocked to see how little even the best graduating students new about the subject/industry. We see something similar in black belts. An inexperienced first or second dan will typically seem to be very lacking when compared to someone that is a sixth+ dan and has 30+ years in the art in question. imho Ray On May 7, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > I hear ya, but if I say I have a degree in computer networking then for me > walking the walk and talking the talking is doing stuff like configuring > routers, servers, laying out topologies, etc. What is walking the walk and > talking the talk in terms of a black belt certificate? _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:21:56 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Back in the early days, of modern Korean Martial Arts, up to and including the beginning days of the TKD movement and even for sometime back. Presenting the Dan Certification as part of a resume could be used to land a better job in korea. Probably weren't too many 6,7, 8 or 9th dans in those days. In some organizations the fee for the testing aids in keeping the organization running, thus providing further study. Now that we can print our own in the privacy of our own home, I have attained the rank of 42nd Dan. The certificate and a dollar buy me a double esspresso. Seriously all this depends on the organization, the individual and the values they place on it. Sincerely, (sometimes) Curt McCauley Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Current Kukkiwon dan prices Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:36:33 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interestingly in the mid-50s some of the kwanjangs got together to promote themselves to 4th Dan. So no 6, 7 or 8 dans were around. Later Gen. Choi Hong-hi was given an honorary 4th Dan and honorary kwanjang position, but it was revoked in 1957 when he adamantly insisted that he be promoted to 6th Dan. Ray On May 8, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Curt McCauley wrote: > Probably weren't too many 6,7, 8 or 9th dans in those days. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest