Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 02:48:22 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #127 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) (Thomas Gordon) 2. dan bong (Ray) 3. Another similar version of CDK history (Ray) 4. Re: Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) (Ray) 5. Fw: [WTF-TaeKwonDo] Cebu taekwondo (Jye nigma) 6. RE: Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) (Thomas Gordon) 7. RE: Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) (Rick Clark) 8. Re: dan bong (bruce f) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 19:07:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry, An interesting read. A few things that jumped out at me. "In 1957, Choi insisted that I give him a 6th Dan and sent a certificate he prepared in my name for me to sign." Letter was dated June 15, 1959. So it took him two years to revoke the fourth degree? Odd. And did he do it publically! Wow! "Because Choi and I were sworn brothers, and because my younger brother had a 6th Dan, he wanted one also." General Choi was born in 1918. Can't seem to find a birth date on Son Duk Sung but he was younger than General Choi. Also started martial arts later than General Choi. So I can understand General Choi looking at this man's younger brother and saying, "I'm as good as he is. I do more for Taekwondo than the younger brother. We're blood brothers. I should be promoted to the same rank." Anyone have a bio on Grand Master Son Duk Sung? Be interesting to see the timelines. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] dan bong Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 14:23:10 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm not a LEO, but it can, and does, vary greatly by state and local penal code and case law. For example for Calif PC one source for the state penal code is http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html. There should be other links for other states. On May 9, 2009, at 12:43 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > Quick question for any LEOs is it legal to carry dan bongs like in > your > pocket? Sounds like a silly question but I have no clue about what's > legal to > carry as a weapon and what's not. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 18:01:05 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Another similar version of CDK history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My understanding is that while Gen. Choi may have begun Karate training in Japan, he did not keep it up. Too busy rising through the ranks of the Korean military. Thus his rank and title from the CDK was honorary. ------------------------------------------ http://www.utfmadison.com/chung_do_kwan_history.php Credit: Master Earl Weiss, 7th Dan, ITF for the Chung Do Kwan history. .... There is an interesting fact regarding the Chung Do Kwan. Son, Duk Sung was the instructor who provided General Choi, Hong Hi with his 4th Dan certificate. Son, details that this was an honorary degree. He later canceled this certificate, and revoked Choi's honorary Kwajang (Grandmaster) status when General Choi sent him a 6th Dan certificate which he insisted that Son must sign. Son also expelled Nam, Tae Hi, from Chung Do Kwan during this same time period. Choi and Nam were the founders of the Oh Do Kwan, which will be discussed later in this paper. The first seventeen Black Belts of Chung Do Kwan were: 1. Yoo, Ung Jun, 2. Son, Duk Sung, 3. Uhm, Woon Kyu, 4. Hyun, Jong Myun, 5. Min, Woon Sik, 6. Han, In Sook, 7. Jung, Young Taek, 8. Kang, Suh Chong, 9. Baek, Joon Ki, 10. Nam, Tae Hi, 11. Ko, Jae Chun, 12. Kwak, Kuen Sik, 13. Kim, Suk Kyu, 14. Han, Cha Kyo, 15. Jo, Sung Il, 16. Lee, Sa Man, 17. Rhee, Jhoon Goo - the Father of American Taekwondo. As time progressed, several Kwans which derived their basis from Chung Do Kwan opened in Korea. They include: 1. Kuk Mu Kwan, founded by Kang, Suh Chong, 2. Jung Do Kwan, founded by Lee, Yong Woo, 3. Chung Ryong Kwan, founded by Ko, Jae Chun, 4. Oh Do Kwan, founded by Choi, Hong Hi and Nam, Tae Hi. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 18:07:26 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As I recall the story, from one fellow that was a dan rank in Korea at that time, the events began in 1957. In 1958 the rank was revoked. Then due to claims being made, etc. it was clarified and made public in 1959. Or so the story goes... Ray On May 9, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Thomas Gordon wrote: > "In 1957, Choi insisted that I give him a 6th Dan and sent a > certificate he > prepared in my name for me to sign." Letter was dated June 15, 1959. > > So it took him two years to revoke the fourth degree? Odd. And did > he do > it publically! Wow! --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 18:31:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fw: [WTF-TaeKwonDo] Cebu taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To know more about the upcoming tourney of region VII please visit http://www.afgtaekwondo.com  --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 22:36:54 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I asked Grand Master Hwang about this and he laughed saying "Look at pictures. General Choi in center and Master Son in the back. General Choi much senior." Not sure what time frame the picture in reference was taken. Timing doesn't look good for Grand Master Son. He was denied entrance to the 1959 demo team and three months later makes a very public example out of General Choi. From the way things sound, it cost him presidency over CKD. Anywho, more to read and see what can be made of things. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Thomas, Syngman Rhee was the President of South Korea from 1948 to 1960, and was basically a dictator. Any General during that time period would have had a great deal of power over the civilian population. It is understandable that Gen. Choi would be in the center of any picture that had civilian TKD instructors - even if Gen. Choi had no rank whatsoever in TKD Gen. Choi would be the person with seniority. A General in a military dictatorship would have been a rather powerful figure and one a civilian would not want to mess with. When I was in Korea back in the late 60's and early 70's things were very different that what I hear they are now, and I can only imagine what it might have been like under the Rhee dictatorship. So to see a picture with Gen. Choi in the middle of a group of TKD masters would not surprise me. For that matter what if Pres Obama were to meet with 10 masters of TKD today and they stood in line for a picture......where would Pres Obama be standing? In the back row, off to the side, or in the middle? Rick Clark -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Gordon [mailto:tgordon@gordonmartialarts.com] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:37 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Choi & Son (was Current Kukkiwon dan prices) I asked Grand Master Hwang about this and he laughed saying "Look at pictures. General Choi in center and Master Son in the back. General Choi much senior." Not sure what time frame the picture in reference was taken. Timing doesn't look good for Grand Master Son. He was denied entrance to the 1959 demo team and three months later makes a very public example out of General Choi. From the way things sound, it cost him presidency over CKD. Anywho, more to read and see what can be made of things. Sincerely, Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars on April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) From: bruce f Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] dan bong To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray is correct, you need to check your own states statues.  Generally speaking it is an unlawful use of weapons charge if the knife has a blade longer that 3 inches.  Whether the knife is an auto-opener (switch blade) is also an issue in some states.  This site may help.    http://www.knifelawsonline.com/knifehome/ ________________________________ From: Ray To: The_Dojang Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 4:23:10 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] dan bong I'm not a LEO, but it can, and does, vary greatly by state and local penal code and case law.  For example for Calif PC one source for the state penal code is http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html.  There should be other links for other states. On May 9, 2009, at 12:43 PM, Jye nigma wrote: > Quick question for any LEOs is it legal to carry dan bongs like in your > pocket? Sounds like a silly question but I have no clue about what's legal to > carry as a weapon and what's not. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers applySubscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest