Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 21:03:00 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #139 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Overly Commercialized (Ray) 2. RE: Overly Commercialized (Christian Briggs) 3. RE: Overly Commercialized MA (Jye nigma) 4. school/style emblem (freddie bishop) 5. RE: Overly Commercialized (Jye nigma) 6. Re: school/style emblem (Ray) 7. RE: Overly Commercialized MA (Thomas Gordon) 8. Honorable vs Dishonorable (Robert Wood) 9. Notice for WTF Kyorugi & Poomsae International Referees (The_Dojang) 10. Committee Meeting on Electronic Protector (The_Dojang) 11. Re: Honorable vs Dishonorable (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 13:58:57 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net More than that even, he is a total fake and a complete fraud... Ray --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Christian Briggs" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 14:53:29 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have never met or heard this person before, but since joining this group, I have looke dhim up online quite a bit. Some of the things he writes online seem to make a certain amount of sense. Before everybody gets the shorts in a bunch, I have been convinced for quite some time that he is a charlatin. However, he must be a silver tongued devil to continue to make some amount of money this way, even after being caught forging certificates. To me I always thought that Dr. Phil selling a Diet book required a bit of gall...this guy really takes the cake though. -Chris -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:thedojang@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:59 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized More than that even, he is a total fake and a complete fraud... Ray _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:45:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized MA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think this is the perfect example of how one can go over to the 'dark side' seduced by $$$ making in the MA...lol.   I am just a believer in quality products will attract people and contracts may never be needed like some may think.   Jye --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Christian Briggs wrote: From: Christian Briggs Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized MA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 4:52 PM Now you've done it.  You brought in this guy. hahaha -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:59 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized MA An example: http://ma-success.tripod.com/ _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] school/style emblem Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How can one find out if a certain artwork that is used for the school/style emblem patch is protected by trademark or copywrite? Some folks claim a trademark on their emblems but are they really holding trademark protection rights? fred --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:43:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net He fits the profile of what I'm talking about to a 'T'. He has the martial arts, various programs, books, membership stuff, etc. So if the focus is money go hard or go home...lol.   Jye --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Christian Briggs wrote: From: Christian Briggs Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 5:53 PM I have never met or heard this person before, but since joining this group, I have looke dhim up online quite a bit.  Some of the things he writes online seem to make a certain amount of sense.  Before everybody gets the shorts in a bunch, I have been convinced for quite some time that he is a charlatin.  However, he must be a silver tongued devil to continue to make some amount of money this way, even after being caught forging certificates. To me I always thought that Dr. Phil selling a Diet book required a bit of gall...this guy really takes the cake though. -Chris -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:thedojang@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:59 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized More than that even, he is a total fake and a complete fraud... Ray _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] school/style emblem Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:54:56 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net go to http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm and start reading, and searching. Ray On May 20, 2009, at 5:41 PM, freddie bishop wrote: > How can one find out if a certain artwork that is used for the > school/style emblem patch is protected by trademark or copywrite? > Some folks claim a trademark on their emblems but are they really > holding trademark protection rights? --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Overly Commercialized MA From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye, I think this has been beaten up pretty good on both sides. Everyone is aware of the need of money – problem is the love of money. Money is what my bank takes for the home for my family. Money is what the grocery store takes to feed my family. And I typically see the same argument for doctors, teachers, and pastors. They are saving lives, educating us, or saving souls...surely they shouldn’t get tempted with money. To me, it’s a silly argument. Our pastor makes a very good living and every time I see him he’s studying, preaching, or visiting. We simply wouldn’t get that from a volunteer pastor or part time pastor. Same is true with martial arts. I don’t even want to think about the lack of quality in having a part time school teacher for my kids. ACK! If I can’t make a good living and feed my family in XYZ industry, then I’ll move to ABC industry. And there went the (full time) talented martial artists because they couldn’t live as well as they should. “I am just a believer in quality products will attract people and contracts may never be needed like some may think” With due respect, some of your posts are very interesting. However, when it comes to business, it’s best to get advice from someone that is successful in that particular industry. For you to say, as a student, you don’t like contracts is totally fair. And when confronted with that at our school, they can prepay a year or pay a higher rate – no worries. But when I talk to school owners that have 150-250+ students, everyone that I know of uses contracts. Some of them produce world class martial artists and some don’t. Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Robert Wood To: Dojang Digest Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 07:45:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Honorable vs Dishonorable Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been reading the posts concerning contract/non-contract. We are a martial arts family (my son and I teach TKD and Yang Tai Chi, my wife teaches Yang Tai Chi) we are NOT affiliated w/ any big name organization (e.g. ATA; ITF; WTF; etc). We learned are arts in a small town school run by a committed husband and wife team. No contracts, just monthly dues. My family and I are struggling to establish a school in the town we now live. I am working 40 hours a week and my son has a job in the food industry. We have yet to find a venue to teach out of or realized the capital needed to secure a location. My wife is teaching Tai Chi at a local health club, on the US Army post, the US Air Force base, and via the local community college. Some might say she has hit her stride, however she is only getting $20 per hour and she only teaches seven hours a week. It is NOT dishonorable to earn a comfortable living for your family. Yes it is dishonorable to teach a watered down MA. I have to ask the question…who’s MA is pure from the source? The ancient master did not share ALL their knowledge with ALL their students. Only the ones that proved themselves worthy learned the “secrets” or “whole” art. So were the ancient masters dishonorable? They taught the bulk of their students only a portion or a “watered down” version of their art. The question then needs to be asked how many of the old masters were in fact part of the ancient master’s inner circle. This question continues to domino; how many modern masters were part of the old master’s inner. Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware (they buy at their own risk). This runs true for any product or service; from groceries to cell phones to package delivery. Whether the MA is offered out of a garage or a 20,000 square foot facility the consumer is ultimately responsible for where their dollar is spent. Any industry/service provider will have those who are dishonorable, as a member of an industry or service provider we need to make sure we provide the very best we can and shine a light on those who do NOT, to preserve the integrity of out industry/service. BTW I have not made a decision as to use contracts or not. in His service, Rob Wood Knowing is not enough, you must apply...Willing is not enough, you must do. -- Bruce Lee The path of the Warrior is life long, and mastery is often simply staying the path. -- Richard Strozzi-Heckler I am careful not confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is God's business -- Michael J. Fox Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_WhatsNew1_052009 --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:21:58 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Notice for WTF Kyorugi & Poomsae International Referees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Notice for WTF Kyorugi & Poomsae International Referees http://wtforg.cafe24.com/wtf_eng/site/news/notice.html?bbs_no=3105&bbs_code=10008&bbs_num=294&symode=view&PHPSESSID=7fd37fa2215bccfa3e1e38e6c43aacd3 20 May 2009 1. Change of Personal info : - International Referees whose personal info(address, phone/fax numbers, mobile number, E-mail address and Kukkiwon Dan grade) has been changed are requested to advise the WTF of the change by E-mail(referee@wtf.org) or Fax(82 2 553 4728) using the attached form. 1) WTF Kyorugi International Referee - IRs holding P class qualification shall be promoted to 3rd class when promoted to Kukkiwon 4th Dan. Promotion is at the end of June and December each year. If you are promoted to Kukkiwon 4th Dan, please send a copy of your Dan certificate to the WTF by E-mail(referee@wtf.org) or Fax(82 2 553 4728). 2) WTF Poomsae International Referee - When you are promoted to a higher Kukkiwon Dan, please send a copy of your Dan certificate to the WTF by E-mail(referee@wtf.org) or Fax(82 2 553 4728). 2. IR annual fees payment : 1) WTF Kyorugi International Referee - The annual fee shall be paid by the end of December every year. And qualification of any International Referee who has not paid the prescribed annual fee for three(3) years in a row is automatically suspended. - Annual fees should be paid online by credit. In this regard, payment by checks and/or in cash will not be accepted. For payment in English, please visit http://wtf.cocoeye.co.kr For payment in Korean, please visit http://wtfkorea.cocoeye.co.kr - All international referees of the WTF are required to pay a annual fee of USD50 beginnig in 2007. Until the year 2006, annual fee was USD100 for 1st class, USD70 for 2nd class and USD50 for 3rd and P classes (S class : none). 2) WTF Poomsae International Referee - Currently, there is no annual fee of Poomsae International Referees. 3. International Referee Refresher Course - WTF Kyorugi and Poomsae IRs are requested to attend International Referee Refresher Courses conducted by WTF for education on the amended competition rules, etc. as well as improvement of quality as International Referees. - International Referees for all official events of the WTF should be the ones who attended the International Referee Refresher Course on the latest amendment of the competition rules. - Notice on International Referee Refresher Courses is sent out to member National Associations of the WTF and is also posted on the WTF website http://www.wtf.org. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:24:33 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Committee Meeting on Electronic Protector Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Progress Report - Ad-hoc Committee Meeting on Electronic Protector 21 May 2009 Ref.No.09/374 President, WTF Member National Association President, WTF Continental Unions WTF Council Member and auditors Re: Progress Report - Ad-hoc Committee Meeting on Electronic Protector (Lausanne, Switzerland on May 6-7, 2009) Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to inform you that the WTF ad-hoc committee for Electronic Protectors led by Mr. Ivan Dibos, IOC Member and WTF Council Member, successfully organized electronic protector demonstration test on May 6, 2009 in Lausanne, Switzerland with participation of two companies; Daedo from Spain and KP & P from Korea. Upon request of Mr. Dibos, International Olympic Committee (IOC) also sent an observer to this event. To ensure a fair and professional test, Swiss Taekwondo Federation provided four national team taekwondo athletes and four referees, while French Taekwondo Federation also provided four athletes. Early in the day on May 6, the ad-hoc committee and its working group met at the Olympic Museum to discuss test protocol and met again on May 7 for the evaluation of the test and preparations for the report to the WTF President. According to the report, the ad-hoc committee expressed its positive impression on both products especially in the areas of total flexibility, classical design, water-proof sensor, verification of valid attacks and reversibility. The ad-hoc committee recommended that these two companies submit their products to KISS Institute for laboratory testing and another field-testing in actual competition situation before final approval to be used at WTF recognized tournaments. WTF will contact KISS Institute soon to give a revised specification for laboratory test. Ad-hoc committee also reaffirmed at its meeting on May 7, 2009 that it will decide whether or not to use electronic protector at next World Championships at next meeting on June 12, 2009, after the end of competition on the 2nd day of the 2009 WTF World Cup Taekwondo Team Championships in Baku, Azerbaijan. Although the time left until 2009 World Championships in Copenhagen is too short, which is of concern of the WTF and member nations, this important decision is to be made on June 12, 2009 by ad-hoc committee taking into consideration the importance of the quality of the product as well as fairness of the competitions. Meanwhile, the members of Working Group will be further strengthened to review and improve the current WTF specifications on electronic protectors so that any companies will be able to produce electronic protectors in strict accordance with WTF Specification in the future. Please be assured that WTF is determined to continue its efforts to improve electronic protectors for the fairness of our sport. Sincerely yours, Jin Suk Yang Secretary General Cc: Chairman and members of ad-hoc committee --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Honorable vs Dishonorable Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 09:50:04 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this is a common thread, or urban legend, frequently heard in the CMAs and in some cases the FMAs, but one wonders how true it is. It makes for an interesting story line, but the cases in which I have seen that claim made one usually finds something else actually occurred. Ray On May 21, 2009, at 5:45 AM, Robert Wood wrote: > The ancient master did not share ALL their > knowledge with ALL their students. Only the ones that proved > themselves > worthy learned the “secrets” or “whole” art. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest