Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 02:48:22 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #147 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. MDK Logo (Curt McCauley) 2. Re: UBBT (Ray) 3. Re: The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do (Ray) 4. RE: The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do (James Sleep) 5. Re: The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do (Jye nigma) 6. RE: The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do (James Sleep) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:21:51 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK Logo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, We are getting above my paygrade here. I have a MDK dan bon, as does my instructor as does his instructor, issued by Hwang Kee, Kwan Jang Nim and founder of the Moo Duk Kwan. I believe that Ray (sorry sir, I don't know your rank or title) has one also, and I suspect his number is much smaller, thus more senior, than mine. And I think there may be others in this group. When we first started this string, I suggested that one could call Headquarters at 1-888-Soobahk, and speak to Master Phil Duncan, the Executive Director of the U.S. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation Inc. (His ancestral history is very interesting in it self.) I also suggested that one could go to www.soobahkdo.com and to www.worldmoodukkwan.com Both of these sites have contact numbers that will get you more accurate answers than I am able to provide. I remain very grateful to being a part of it all. Curt McCauley Channel Town Soo Bahk Do --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] UBBT Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 17:52:15 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Only what is available on their squarespace blog, http://ubbt.squarespace.com/ . Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net On May 28, 2009, at 1:02 PM, Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com wrote: > Greetings and Pilsung! > Who here on the Digest has heard of the Ultimate Black Belt Test? --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 18:00:50 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Soo Bahk Do is a newer name that GM Hwang Kee came up with to use instead of using Tang Soo Do. The name Tang Soo Do was generic and was used and the art taught first in Korea by the Chung Do Kwan's Lee Won-kuk. Hwang Kee later started using the name TSD, even tho many mistakenly attribute the name to him. At the beginning of the government backed movement in S. Korea to unify the karate-style kwans, Hwang Kee was all for it. The Moo Duk Kwan was probably the largest kwan, so he thought that all the kwans should unify under him. He was involved in the initial unification steps, but once he saw that he would not be in complete control he pulled out thinking that no MDK would doom the movement. Instead the MDK fragmented with most of the MDK dans and MDK instructors leaving to form TKD MDK, still the largest TKD kwan. Just as Hapkido and Taekwondo have continued to evolve since the 1950s, so has Soo Bahk Do, and I dare say Tang Soo Do. If a karate- style art is defined by its hyungs/poomsae, then clearly Soo Bahk Do has grown and evolved since it came into being in the mid to late 1950s. Thus you have SBD MDK, TSD MDK and TKD MDK. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net On May 29, 2009, at 9:04 AM, James Sleep wrote: > Perhaps someone could address my concern about the relationship of > Tang Soo > Do to Soo Bak Do. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "James Sleep" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:08:31 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Since Hwang Kee started using the name Tang Soo Do and then changed the name to Soo Bahk Do it seems that anyone learning from his immediate students were learning Soo Bahk Do. And any changes between the two styles would be attributed to students of students as the two names carried on in separate directions. So which do you suppose has remained true to Hwang Kee's initial style? Respectfully, James -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:thedojang@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:01 PM To: The_Dojang Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do Soo Bahk Do is a newer name that GM Hwang Kee came up with to use instead of using Tang Soo Do. The name Tang Soo Do was generic and was used and the art taught first in Korea by the Chung Do Kwan's Lee Won-kuk. Hwang Kee later started using the name TSD, even tho many mistakenly attribute the name to him. At the beginning of the government backed movement in S. Korea to unify the karate-style kwans, Hwang Kee was all for it. The Moo Duk Kwan was probably the largest kwan, so he thought that all the kwans should unify under him. He was involved in the initial unification steps, but once he saw that he would not be in complete control he pulled out thinking that no MDK would doom the movement. Instead the MDK fragmented with most of the MDK dans and MDK instructors leaving to form TKD MDK, still the largest TKD kwan. Just as Hapkido and Taekwondo have continued to evolve since the 1950s, so has Soo Bahk Do, and I dare say Tang Soo Do. If a karate- style art is defined by its hyungs/poomsae, then clearly Soo Bahk Do has grown and evolved since it came into being in the mid to late 1950s. Thus you have SBD MDK, TSD MDK and TKD MDK. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net On May 29, 2009, at 9:04 AM, James Sleep wrote: > Perhaps someone could address my concern about the relationship of > Tang Soo > Do to Soo Bak Do. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 21:11:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is some confusing stuff....lol. It's funny how some things are easily understood and other things need a schematic to accompany it....lol   Jye --- On Fri, 5/29/09, Ray wrote: From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do To: "The_Dojang" Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 9:00 PM Soo Bahk Do is a newer name that GM Hwang Kee came up with to use instead of using Tang Soo Do.  The name Tang Soo Do was generic and was used and the art taught first in Korea by the Chung Do Kwan's Lee Won-kuk.  Hwang Kee later started using the name TSD, even tho many mistakenly attribute the name to him. At the beginning of the government backed movement in S. Korea to unify the karate-style kwans, Hwang Kee was all for it.  The Moo Duk Kwan was probably the largest kwan, so he thought that all the kwans should unify under him.  He was involved in the initial unification steps, but once he saw that he would not be in complete control he pulled out thinking that no MDK would doom the movement.  Instead the MDK fragmented with most of the MDK dans and MDK instructors leaving to form TKD MDK, still the largest TKD kwan. Just as Hapkido and Taekwondo have continued to evolve since the 1950s, so has Soo Bahk Do, and I dare say Tang Soo Do.  If a karate-style art is defined by its hyungs/poomsae, then clearly Soo Bahk Do has grown and evolved since it came into being in the mid to late 1950s.  Thus you have SBD MDK, TSD MDK and TKD MDK. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "James Sleep" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 11:10:54 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The problem with the name change from TSD to SBD had added another element to my concern. How do I trace the lineage of my Dan Bon. Since my instructor was Jae Joon Kim Dan Bon #38, an immediate student of Hwang Kee, and I am registered in Korea with Hwang Kee's Moo Duk Kwan, does Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do both recognize my Dan Bon? Respectfully, James -----Original Message----- From: James Sleep [mailto:jsleep@provide.net] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:09 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do Since Hwang Kee started using the name Tang Soo Do and then changed the name to Soo Bahk Do it seems that anyone learning from his immediate students were learning Soo Bahk Do. And any changes between the two styles would be attributed to students of students as the two names carried on in separate directions. So which do you suppose has remained true to Hwang Kee's initial style? Respectfully, James -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:thedojang@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:01 PM To: The_Dojang Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The difference between tang soo do and soo bak do Soo Bahk Do is a newer name that GM Hwang Kee came up with to use instead of using Tang Soo Do. The name Tang Soo Do was generic and was used and the art taught first in Korea by the Chung Do Kwan's Lee Won-kuk. Hwang Kee later started using the name TSD, even tho many mistakenly attribute the name to him. At the beginning of the government backed movement in S. Korea to unify the karate-style kwans, Hwang Kee was all for it. The Moo Duk Kwan was probably the largest kwan, so he thought that all the kwans should unify under him. He was involved in the initial unification steps, but once he saw that he would not be in complete control he pulled out thinking that no MDK would doom the movement. Instead the MDK fragmented with most of the MDK dans and MDK instructors leaving to form TKD MDK, still the largest TKD kwan. Just as Hapkido and Taekwondo have continued to evolve since the 1950s, so has Soo Bahk Do, and I dare say Tang Soo Do. If a karate- style art is defined by its hyungs/poomsae, then clearly Soo Bahk Do has grown and evolved since it came into being in the mid to late 1950s. Thus you have SBD MDK, TSD MDK and TKD MDK. Ray Terry thedojang@sbcglobal.net On May 29, 2009, at 9:04 AM, James Sleep wrote: > Perhaps someone could address my concern about the relationship of > Tang Soo > Do to Soo Bak Do. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest