Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:10:01 +0200 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #154 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Bypassing MMA (Ray) 2. RE: David Carradine (Eric Deveau) 3. hwarang do stick fighting (freddie bishop) 4. Our mark in the community (Robert Wood) 5. RE: Re: Martial arts an "ism"? (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 6. Fwd: submission (Ray) 7. RE: Our mark in the community (Thomas Gordon) 8. chiropractors (freddie bishop) 9. Zeishe (Frank Clay) 10. Hwang Kee's History (Frank Clay) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:36:12 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bypassing MMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net U.S. Wrestlers Given Incentive to Bypass Mixed Martial Arts By GREG BISHOP The gold medal that Henry Cejudo won in freestyle wrestling at the last Olympics sits somewhere inside his sock drawer. It earned him more fame than fortune, although enough money to splurge on a Mercedes E500. If Cejudo repeats his golden performance in 2012, the payoff will be considerably more lucrative. USA Wrestling announced this week the creation of a medal fund that would pay wrestlers $250,000 for an Olympic gold medal, $50,000 for a silver and $25,000 for a bronze. “This is bigger than just wrestling,” Cejudo said Thursday in a telephone interview. “This is bigger than the quarter-million. This is going to change everything. It’s going to revolutionize the sport.” The incentive program, called the Living the Dream Medal Fund, grew out of the United States’ underwhelming haul of three wrestling medals at the Beijing Games, the desire to energize the sport by strengthening it at the grass-roots level and, most important, the urge to keep wrestlers in the sport. Cejudo, 22, acknowledged that he had considered converting to mixed martial arts. He said he had watched M.M.A. since seventh grade and that his grappling skills would pay dividends inside the steel cage. He said he knew of at least five Olympic-caliber wrestlers who had switched and others who were considering it. “M.M.A. is growing, and it’s a basic wrestling sport,” Cejudo said. “A lot of fighters are ex-wrestlers. A lot of guys take the easy way out, make quick money. This fund will keep wrestlers in wrestling.” It certainly represents a major increase. Cejudo made $40,000 — paid by USA Wrestling and the United States Olympic Committee — for the gold. Wrestlers can earn more through private contributions and sponsorships. Most of the new medal bonuses will be paid from private contributions, but the figures also include the previous contributions from the United States Olympic Committee and donations of between $5 and $5,000 from the public. According to Rich Bender, the executive director of USA Wrestling, the more money made in public donations, the less financial obligation the fund’s stewards will have. That money could then be spent in other areas, like training. In Beijing, Cejudo was the only American to win a gold medal. Adam Wheeler took a bronze medal in Greco-Roman and Randi Miller won a bronze in women’s freestyle. The Greco-Roman team won its first world championship in 2007, which added to the disappointment at Beijing. “The best-case scenario would be paying out 18 $250,000 bonuses,” Bender said, meaning one bonus for each of the six weight classes in each of the three disciplines. He added: “The results from Beijing weren’t what we expected or hoped for. I like to think we’re getting close to a double-digit count in wrestling. We want to get back on top.” Wrestling’s incentive program compares favorably with those of other Olympic sports. USA Table Tennis pays $100,000 for an Olympic gold medal, but no American athlete in that sport has ever won one. Basketball, curling, biathlon, tennis and softball do not pay anything. Some sports, like tae kwon do, do not disclose the amount they pay. Most Olympic athletes make their money from sponsorships, and often those sponsors pay bonuses for medals. Michael Phelps earned $1 million from Speedo for his performance in Beijing. Wrestling also increased its payout for world championship medals — $50,000 for gold, $25,000 for silver and $15,000 for bronze, up from $21,000, $13,500 and $11,000. Cejudo, meanwhile, has taken a year off from wrestling to capitalize on the opportunities that arose from his victory. He has traveled the world, teaching in camps and clinics; has sought marketing opportunities; and agreed to be the subject of a soon-to-be-released book. Recently, Cejudo committed to trying for the London Games in 2012. “I always wanted to be the best,” Cejudo said. “But the fund totally locked me in.” His voice rose. “I’m coming for that quarter-million.” --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Eric Deveau To: Ray Terry DJD Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:18:21 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: David Carradine Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The conspiracy theorists are probably gonna have a feild day with this one. Not a Suicide This will probably end up being labeled "Death By Misadventure" considering how his body was found in the closet naked and the window sash cord around his neck and another portion of his anatomy. It is a shame though I'm sure someone will say it was Bruce Lee's restless spirit taking revenge or some other nonsense. Will be missed. > BANGKOK - ACTOR David Carradine, star of the 1970s TV series 'Kung Fu' who also had a wide-ranging career in the movies, has been found dead in the Thai capital, Bangkok. > A spokesman for the US Embassy, Michael Turner, confirmed the death of the 72-year-old actor. He says Carradine died either late Wednesday or early Thursday, but he could not provide further details out of consideration for his family. > The Web site of the newspaper The Nation cited unidentified police sources as saying Carradine was found Thursday hanged in his luxury hotel room and is believed to have committed suicide. > Carradine was a leading member of a venerable Hollywood acting family that included his father, character actor John Carradine, and brother Keith. -- AP _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:38:39 -0700 (PDT) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hwarang do stick fighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've always thought that the Hwarang Do guys were awesome. I visited a Hwarang Do school in Pheonix, AZ back in the early 90's. The instructor let me watch his classes, and I was greatful. If I were going to live in that area, I would have signed up to learn from that guy. I don't recall the instructors' name. fred --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Robert Wood To: Dojang Digest Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 08:17:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Our mark in the community Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been reading the “-ism” thread…I am a product of the public school system (Florida) and I am intelligent, responsible, and a contributor to my community. I have worked in the public school system as a substitute teacher( Georgia and Missouri) and I have been the Director of the Outside School Suspension Program (Missouri). I have also held the position of youth pastor in Colorado and Florida. I am a retired US Air Force Security Forces (Police) Technical Sergeant and as such have lead and trained HUNDREDS young (17, 18, and 19+ YOA) people. I am also a Traditional TKD instructor, who like most of you, have trained any number of children. Like Mr. Tomlinson I claim an in-depth knowledge of the younger generation. With all that being said I agree with Mr. Gordon: parents MUST be parents. Teachers, coaches, MA instructors, and pastors, etc. are a reinforcement tool. To paraphrase Charles Barkley…”I am not your kid’s role model, which is your job. I am a teacher, instructor, supervisor, etc.” Gentleman, with respect… Mr. Tomlinson and Mr. Gordon declare that parents must be parents; however I take umbrage with their disdain for home schooling. If a parent decides to take responsibility for the education of their child how dare you judge them? Mr. Gordon you decry the use of tax dollars for “government indoctrination”, yet you give a sinister complement to your sister “my sister SEEMED to have very good success at it with her children”. Seemed..? Have the children spiraled out of control, and they unable to function in the community, are they so far behind the “government” schooled children that they will be a burden to the community? Mr. Tomlinson you declare that the facility you teach from cannot be matched by any other schooling options. “…and we teach computer graphics, cisco networking, programming, tv-production, along with all the core subjects being mixed in using advanced technology. I would love to see a home school, religious school, or any charter school do the same...” The citizens of your community that home school, send their children to religious schools, charter schools, or who have no children at all still pay property taxes. Those taxes buy you your equipment, furnish you a place to conduct your classes, and pay your salary. As martial arts instructors we need to set the example; we, as men, need to provide a positive influence in our comminutes regardless of our vocation. in His service, Rob Wood Knowing is not enough, you must apply...Willing is not enough, you must do. -- Bruce Lee The path of the Warrior is life long, and mastery is often simply staying the path. -- Richard Strozzi-Heckler I am careful not confuse excellence with perfection. Excellence I can reach for; perfection is God's business -- Michael J. Fox Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial arts an "ism"? Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:53:15 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not wanting to go off the subject too much my girlfriend is a teacher and a very good one. She is now an Asst head. However I am shocked by what some parents ask of her. That is why if we are in some sort of leadership our example has to be sterling. Kids learn what they see. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Gordon [mailto:tgordon@gordonmartialarts.com] Sent: 05 June 2009 16:32 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial arts an "ism"? "Nobody seems to want to take that responsibility, least of all some parents. So schools and teachers are given programs to promote good citizenship." Does this scare the crap outta anyone? Two reasons, to echo Mr Smith's comments, we live in a "not me - not my fault" times. And the government is basically teaching morals due to the vacancies/deficiencies left by the parents. With that said, I sincerely appreciate those teachers that are good examples for their students but still unhappy with the thought of government teaching morals, character development, etc. Off topic a bit. When I hear people say "public education" - I will typically say "government education" because that's what it is. Our government dictates what our children learn. Couple that with parents refusing to be parents leaving the need for someone to fill the role. So the school system (aka government) fills that role. When you consider most of us have our children spend more time in the government school longer than with us, it basically boils down to the government being the surrogate parent. Think about those little yellow government buses carting our children off to government school. And if they don't go, parent goes to jail OR reports their curriculum for government approval. While I don't like the system, for our particular situation, it's better than home schooling. No beef with home schooling - my sister seemed to have very good success at it with her children. Back to martial arts, I'm cautious anytime I see a parent check off the "needs discipline" box. If they are simply looking for reinforcement - great! If they are looking for us to fix what they've screwed up over the past 6-12 years...keep driving. We had a father come into our school that absolutely refused to hold his child responsible and, in effect, let the child make (poor) parental decisions. If I was a betting man, barring a miracle, I'd put money on that child growing up and relying on the government (our tax dollars) for support either through premature social security, welfare, or prison. At our school, we teach/instill more than just self defense and fighting skills. However, not to the extent that we're taking on parental roles. Support and reinforcement - sure. Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net **************************************************************************** LONDON FIRE BRIGADE For fire safety advice please go to http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/YourSafety.asp To book a LFB workplace fire safety training course go to http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/workplacefiresafetytraining.asp This email intended solely for the addressee and is confidential. If you receive this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender immediately. If you are not the addressee please note that any distribution, copying or use of the information in this email may be unlawful. Email transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as information can be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message that arise as a result of email transmission, including any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening emails or their attachments. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: The_Dojang Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 06:48:49 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fwd: submission Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Begin forwarded message: > From: Dojang Digest > Subject: submission > > Dear Mst Terry, > > ... could you forward my response to the list. > > Thanks, > > Brian > > I find these statements odd (perhaps insincere or even > hypocritical ) coming from a commercial school. Most commercial > schools promote discipline as one of the selling points ( improve > behavior , improve school work, improve self esteem etc ) but not if > it's too hard? So it's just hype to get them in the door? I don't > think that you can have it both ways. They're the kids that need the > discipline the most - I think it is a parental act to know when to > ask for help, which most commercial schools advertise themselves to > be and you chastise those coming for the service that commercial > schools advertise? ODD at best. > > On Jun 5, 2009, at 8:48 PM, the_dojang- > request@martialartsresource.net wrote: >> Back to martial arts, I’m cautious anytime I see a parent check off >> the >> “needs discipline” box. If they are simply looking for >> reinforcement – >> great! If they are looking for us to fix what they’ve screwed up >> over the >> past 6-12 years...keep driving. >> >> We had a father come into our school that absolutely refused to >> hold his >> child responsible and, in effect, let the child make (poor) parental >> decisions. If I was a betting man, barring a miracle, I’d put >> money on >> that child growing up and relying on the government (our tax >> dollars) for >> support either through premature social security, welfare, or prison. >> >> At our school, we teach/instill more than just self defense and >> fighting >> skills. However, not to the extent that we’re taking on parental >> roles. >> Support and reinforcement - sure. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Our mark in the community Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:29:58 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Wood, I meant no disrespect to public/government school teachers or home school teachers. One of my sisters did a good job with her children in the schooling area...better than I expected. And, better than I typically see from kids that have been home schooled. I went to a public school and have done decent for myself and my family. The senior instructor at our school has taught in the public/government school system for over 30 years. He's a good man but he must work within his boundaries as a government employee. I try to be fair in my assessments. There are weaknesses in public and home schooling. I don't particularly care for any of them. Public school teachers are told what to teach and how to teach. Even if they are great teachers, if their students fails the FCAT, teacher may be gainfully unemployed. Principle is under pressure to be an "A+ school" and I have seen a principle dismissed from their position when the school made a "C" rating on FCAT. On the surface, seems logical, FCAT grades the student and the environment they are learning from. If the student can't seem to past this "standardized test," the principle is up for review. So what does the principle do? They "prepare for the FCAT." Prepare equates to studying for the exam. Sorry, in life, FCAT is not part of what I need to produce a living for my family. This is one very small example of a major weakness in the public/government system. I read the crap our high school child brings home and I'm amazed at how history is rewritten. My bride wanted to home school. I told her the weaknesses I saw in public/government schooling and then said it seemed like the best way to go given our area and particular situation. She looked at me like I was crazy. I then asked her to name one person in her family or mine that was intelligent enough to teach every subject up to sixth grade...and if she could, can that person also teach the social skills needed for a child. She couldn't come up with anyone. My sister pulled it off because her husband made a good enough living to provide for his family and my sister was able to devote 100% of her time to her family. And I've always admired her for that. She also lived in an extremely liberal schooling district and had a strong home schooling network to rely on. We have neither in our area. A conservative area with little home schooling support made us lean to the public/government schooling system. And, it's the same school system we went to since we've lived in this area for many generations. "If a parent decides to take responsibility for the education of their child how dare you judge them?" I review the fruit in which they bare. Some of the fruit is good and some of it is rotten. It is what it is. Our children go to public/government school and we review what we can to make sure it's correct and not suggestive. I am cautious of anything the government does. Our forefathers wanted a small government and that's not what we have. Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 08:25:28 -0700 (PDT) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] chiropractors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does any of you hapkido or judo practitioners need regular visits to the chiropractor to maintain back health? fred --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Frank Clay To: the_dojang Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:44:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Zeishe Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with you. I've taught some very at risk kids. For some of them I was their only father figure. How can I not work with social mores with this group? Beyond that, "Do" has a certain connotation. In my mind, a dangerous place to be no doubt lol, our goal as teachers is not to turn out only those people who are grade A fighters but Grade A people who can be respected. I was taught that we should contribute to society - this is one way to do so. Thoughts? Frank --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Frank Clay To: the_dojang Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:41:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee's History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Curt, I would not refer to that book as true history. It is well documented that the term "Do" did not come into usage until the 20th century. Moo Duk Kwan was not even the first Kwan to open post Japanese occupation - the Chung Do Kwan was, whcih actually opened during the occupation with the permission of (General?) Abe. In fact, Lee, Won Kuk it is said, had to flee Korea as he was considered a conspirator of the Japanese. I don't know if that part of the story is true and am unsure of how to validate it. Bottom line - don't read one book and think its true. It is a perspective. For anyone to claim that any name using the term "Do" as an ancient name is ludicrous. Tang Soo Do is no more ancient than Karate, which arguably is older. Look at the pyong ahns. Remind you of any Japanese forms? The problem lies in the fact that some of HC Hwang's seniors went with KTA and formed TKD MDK. Hwang Kee a few years back was part of a major gathering of all flavors of MDK. In fact, I believe Ray was there. So MDK is now a part of Korean martial arts history. In copywriting the name, that means in order for me to publish it in a handbook explaining history, technically I have to have their permission. In my mind, it is a theft of history. Of ourse, that is my opinion. I think that the SBD MDK should contorl what is theirs but this name has been in the public domain since what? '61? So now every school that is TKD MDK and wants to show its roots cannot? This doesn't strike you as a power play? Frank --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest