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From the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Sat Sep 5 17:21:49 2009 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id n85MLmP03042 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:21:48 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E359B281C3; Sun, 6 Sep 2009 02:49:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 02:48:22 +0200 Message-ID: <20090906004822.16671.71401.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #232 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Para Championships (Ray) 2. Re: Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan (Ray) 3. RE: Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan (Master Mark Seidel) 4. RE: Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan (Robert Brown) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:48:53 -0700 To: The_Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] Para Championships Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF Holds First Para Championships 09-03-2009 By Yoon Chul Korea Times As part of its efforts to promote taekwondo among the disabled, the World Taekwondo Federation launched the World Para-Taekwondo Championships in June 2009. The WTF organized the event with a goal of including the Olympic sport of taekwondo in the official program of the Paralympic Games, thereby helping heighten the image of taekwondo among the international sports community and contributing to world peace. The first WTF World Para-Taekwondo Championships, which took place in Baku, Azerbaijan on June 10, 2009, drew a total of 36 athletes and 18 officials from 16 countries to a great success. The participating countries were host Azerbaijan, Guatemala, France, Iran, Israel, Turkey, Great Britain, Russia, Spain, Mongolia, Chinese Taipei, Uzbekistan, Australia, Canada, the Philippines and Korea. France won the overall title with three gold medals, followed by Azerbaijan, Turkey, Spain, Russia and Chinese Taipei. The championships featured eight weight categories for the para- athletes, including seven male and one female weight division. Electronic body protectors and an instant video replay system were adopted at the Para-Taekwondo Championships. The WTF plans to hold the second World Para-Taekwondo Championships in 2010. --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan From: Ray Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:02:38 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes, I'd say that Korean TKD, i.e. Olympic-style TKD, is far more kicking oriented. That is about the only type of TKD you'll find in S.Korea these days. The TKD one can find in the US will be far more varied. I suspect that the style of TKD that you've been taught has been personalized thru the years by the various instructors in your lineage. What you describe is not typical TKD MDK, esp not the TKD MDK found in Korea today, as it is, again, Olympic-stye (aka Kukki) TKD. That can be seen by looking at the holders of various technical positions within the Kukkiwon. A recent chairman of the Kukkiwon technical committee was the President of the Korea TKD MDK Association. Checking the lineage you listed, the first two instructors named could not have been doing TKD since it did not even exist yet. Assuming they were MDK then they would have been Tang Soo Do MDK and some of what you describe in your style does seem closer to TSD than to TKD. While your style of TKD may not be typical, it sounds to me like a good one. Stay with it. On Sep 4, 2009, at 10:31 AM, mp75ftw@yahoo.com wrote: > Observing American Tae Kwon Do, I find it is more kicking oriented > with less hand, joint, trapping or grappling techniques. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 08:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I recently watched a fight outside of a popular Baltimore high school while I was at a red light. It was clear that by the stance and the jumping up and down one had sport tkd training and I was even more convinced when the same kid ki hop at the beginning of the fight as he step in with an impressive step side kick to the face (picture perfect he was met with a punch to a very open groin. Knock down and wrestled and plummeted to defeat. I pulled over and stop the fight and called 911. I later learned that the defeated kid was a USTA Jr Olympic silver medalist and had been training since age 7. His parents later told me that they had never been trained for a street fight only for competition. This is the danger of sport TKD vs. TKD. If you call yourself an instructor than prepare your students for reality or change your name to sports martial arts with a disclaimer that this won't work in a real situation. Best Mark -----Original Message----- From: mp75ftw@yahoo.com [mailto:mp75ftw@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:31 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan My school lineage is as follows: Chun Chai Qui (Korean Grandmaster) Eugene Percival Jr (US Army stationed in Korea during Korean War) Forrest Blaire (US Student of Eugene Percival Jr) Charles Grahm (US Student of Forrest Blaire) Master Mike Lawrence (US Student of Charles Grahm) Me (US Student of Mike Lawrence) Our style has many hand, joint lock, trapping, throwing, grappling as well as kicking techniques. We also teach Nunchaku, Staff, Tonfa, Sai, Kama, Double Sticks similar to Arnis/Escrima and Sword. I find our style is similar to Hapkido. Observing American Tae Kwon Do, I find it is more kicking oriented with less hand, joint, trapping or grappling techniques. Thoughts on this? --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Robert Brown" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Differences in American Sport Tae Kwon Do and Traditional Tae Kwon Do Moo Duk Kwan Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 08:59:07 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray is correct. Here are my observations. What you have in America these days can be divided up into four or five major groups. World Taekwondo Federation (more properly Kukki-TKD) style which practices Taegeuks and or Palgwes and refer to them as "Poomsaes" (which I believe means "patterns"). The majority of TKD today can fall into this category. International Taekwon-Do Federation style which practices the Chang Hon forms and calls them "Tuls" (which again I think is another word for "patterns"). The ITF practices an up and down movement to generate power called the Sine-Wave into their techniques (the effectiveness of this has been argued up and down Internet forums for the last several years and I am not intending to start another debate over it by posting this, just stating this what the ITF does, if you have never seen this, go to You Tube and type in ITF Tul). American Taekwondo Association which practices the Song Ahm forms. Various independent groups/schools which spell their art "Tae Kwon Do" (notice the various ways to write it). Many of these groups came out of Tang Soo Do but now call it TKD but use the Japanese name, "katas," for forms or will use the older Korean name, "hyungs". Some of these schools may practice the Chang Hon pattern set (and again calling them "katas" or "hyungs") but do not incorporate the Sine-Wave into their techniques as does the ITF. Some may still practice the older Pyung Ahn forms from Tang Soo Do (basically the same as Pinan in Okinawan styles, Heian in Japanese Shotokan). Many of these independent groups and schools are very tournament oriented. It seems to me from what I have been exposed to is that a lot of these independent groups and schools can trace their lineage back to the MDK in some way or another and may even use that name in their school or association. Then there are the Tang Soo Do associations and federations that came out of the Moo Duk Kwan and of course they practice the Pyung Ahn hyungs. Many MDK masters joined the KTA when it was formed so that divided the MDK into MDK TSD and MDK TKD and today most all Korean masters who are members of the MDK TKD practice and teach Kukki-TKD. Basically the days of the kwans are over practically speaking. In South Korea it is all Kukki-TKD. In South Korea the kwans still exist as fraternal social clubs and may even offer certifications, but all are members of and support the Kukkiwon and its curriculum (and the activities of the WTF) . Just my two cents, Robert --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest