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From the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Thu Oct 15 17:14:39 2009 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id n9FMEcc20641 for ; Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:14:38 -0500 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F5CB2810D; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:49:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:48:23 +0200 Message-ID: <20091016004823.7804.59207.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #262 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Black belt (Lee Morgan) 2. Lopez Wins 5th World Champ Title (The_Dojang) 3. Youth Dan/Poom again (Charles Richards) 4. RE: Youth Dan/Poom again (Thomas Gordon) 5. 5 yr old BB (Martial Arts Account) 6. RE: Black Belt (Brooke Thomas) 7. Re: black belt (J R Hilland) 8. Re: 5 yr old BB (Thomas Gordon) 9. Re: 5 yr old BB (The_Dojang) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:34:50 -0400 From: Lee Morgan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: Black belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net LOL! That's funny! The sarcasm isn't lost on me and it's well done! I agree completely with your real message by the way. Rick wrote: How can you be so mean! Everyone who comes in and pays their money to you should get a black belt! How can you judge the worth, skill, knowledge, how they reflect on your school, and all of the other intangible qualities involved in making sure everyone is a black belt. You should not score any tournament you hold or go too, I mean you might make someone feel bad because they are seen as "not as good" as the winner in the match. Everyone who pays their money should get a black belt. Heck, with the way the Nobel Peace Prize was given - why not just evaluate a new student on how good you think they will be, and how hard you think they will practice, and the skill the will develop in the next 50 years of dedicated practice and just save time and award them a 9th dan black belt - even though they are 5 or 6 years old and have had only a couple of weeks lessons. BUT - they would have to have paid for their lessons of course - and any associated test fees........jeez how can you be such a hard ass? By the way I hope no one will misses the fact I am saying these things with my tongue firmly in cheek........ Rick Clark --__--__-- Message: 2 From: The_Dojang Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:12:20 -0700 To: The_Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] Lopez Wins 5th World Champ Title Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sugar Land’s Steven Lopez Wins Fifth World Champ Title First Taekwondo Fighter to Win Five Championships Wednesday, 14 Oct 2009, 5:54 PM CDT HOUSTON - Sugar Land’s Steven Lopez became the first fighter to win five world championship titles at the Taekwondo competition in Denmark on Wednesday. A statement released by the fighter’s spokeswoman says Lopez, 30, won his first world championship gold medal in 2001 and has been undefeated at the biennial event ever since, winning titles in 2003, 2005 and 2007. He also won two Olympic gold medals and one Olympic bronze medal in the last decade. Lopez won this year’s title in a fight against Spain 's Nicolas Garcia Hemme in the men's welterweight gold medal at the WTF World Taekwondo Championships in Copenhagen, Denmark. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:03:38 -0400 From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Youth Dan/Poom again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "I am still against BB under 12 yrs old, after that they must achieve a level superior to all other students at that school, understand their self worth and demonstrate an extraordinary ability." MC Reply Dear Mark, I have produced several adept students between ages 9 to 11. None in less than 4 years. Personally, I view them as 1st Poom even though my current ranking organization views them as "full" black belts. If I followed the philosophy of superior to all other students in the school then they would have to be superior to an adult 3rd dan, a HS senior 2nd Dan and several adult males that transferred into my school with black belts in another art and earned black belts in our system. I don't see that standard as a realistic, measurable goal for a 7 year old starting my youth classes, or an 11 year old with 4 years training. Of course I always say everyone should do what works for them. Yours in Jung Do, MC --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Youth Dan/Poom again Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Always interesting from which position a person sits as they post. For me, I have a family and our youngest is nine. She is a red belt and will be close to ten when she tests for black belt. The minimum age was set in our school when she was three years old. She was literally mimicking what she saw when in diapers so we started a program that was designed around our own child and has been quiet successful for us even though she has long grown/promoted out of that program. Was she doing martial arts? No, not the bad boy stuff. But she was learning the basics and getting prepared for our junior curriculum. For her, martial arts is just a way of life and that gives her a huge edge over her peers. If she's ready at 9 or 10, I'm not making her wait 8-9 more years until she's a legal adult. To me, that's ridiculous. Some say minors shouldn't get black belts and I wonder if they had a black belt as a minor or if they have children that were minors when they successfully tested for black belt. Seems I've seen some young black belts running around at events and posted on websites. Undefeated UFC champion Lyoto Machida successfully tested for black belt when he was thirteen in a very traditional karate style. As I've posted in the past, there are scores of successful martial artists that were children when they successfully tested for black belt. Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Martial Arts Account To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:37:07 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] 5 yr old BB Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To me it is just another contributing factor to why Karate, more specifically TKD is seen as a children's activity. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 06:54:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Black Belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Zieshe- Just curious, when you told those students that you didn't believe they would achieve a belt belt in your school, how much longer on average did they continue to train at your school? Brooke Thomas --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:46:57 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: black belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick, I laughed so hard I spilled my coffee reading your post.:) Unfortunately, there is so much truth to what you said... JRH www.FargoHapkido.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 5 yr old BB From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "To me it is just another contributing factor to why Karate, more specifically TKD is seen as a children's activity." And that gets real old when you see someone that's in High School saying "I've already done that...when I was a kid." TKD is easy to teach and people learned that the money is with children. Most parents will spend money for their child that they "couldn't afford" to spend on themselves. With a child in her senior year of high school, never has that been more true. Wow! Senior year is expensive! As I've written in the past, while in Korea I saw a lot of children sporting black belts in TKD and HKD. The vans were set up to transport them and all "kiddiefied" with the cartoon martial art characters. A real eye opener. Also while there, I saw some of the most spectacular martial arts you'd ever want to see. It was a lot different than I expected. Thomas Gordon Master's Seminars April 16-18, 2010 www.GordonMartialArts.com/april --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 5 yr old BB From: The_Dojang Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:47:59 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Same here. But the diff is that they understood that they were Poom belts, not Dan belts. Big difference. Now it seems some, at least in this country, a awarding Dan belts to small children. I have no idea if that is how it works in the JMAs, but in the KMAs we use Poom ranks for children. Ray Terry the.dojang.digest@gmail.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Thomas Gordon wrote: > As I've written in the past, while in Korea I saw a lot of children > sporting black belts in TKD and HKD. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest