From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Nov 17 17:28:12 2009 Date: 17 Nov 2009 17:28:12 -0600 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 1258500492 0000000000 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Tue Nov 17 17:09:54 2009 Return-Path: Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (tarsus.bollow.ch [82.195.230.222]) by plus11.host4u.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id nAHN9r112340 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:09:53 -0600 Received: from tarsus.bollow.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tarsus.bollow.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F0CB281CD; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:49:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:48:21 +0100 Message-ID: <20091118014821.11953.14822.Mailman@tarsus.bollow.ch> From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 16 #289 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,500 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Knockout (The_Dojang) 2. Re: Lopez felled with a spectacular double kick (James O'Connor) 3. New Dojang Owner (Pat Shaw) 4. Lopez K.O. (Gordon Okerstrom) 5. Re: Lopez K.O. (Jye nigma) 6. Sacrifice Fall for Attack Sake (Gordon Okerstrom) 7. Re: Sacrifice Fall for Attack Sake (James O'Connor) 8. Re: Lopez K.O. (Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:21:11 -0800 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Knockout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net video of the knockout of Steven Lopez http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/taekwondo/6574923/Aaron-Cook-claims-emphatic-victory-over-world-champion-Steven-Lopez.html --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lopez felled with a spectacular double kick From: James O'Connor Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:11:45 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB3t65mnY90 Knockout around 1:23 Slow mo around 1:30 On Nov 16, 2009, at 3:56 PM, The_Dojang wrote: > Cook delight after beating champ > > Cook felled Lopez with a spectacular falling double kick > > Teenager Aaron Cook has described his defeat of former Olympic taekwondo > champion Steven Lopez on Saturday as the greatest victory of his career. > > Cook, 18, from Dorset, knocked out American Lopez in the final to win the > -80kg gold at the inaugural World Taekwondo Tour event in Mexico City. > > His £17,880 prize is the largest ever won by a British taekwondo competitor. > > "To beat the world champion makes it the greatest win in my career so far. It > is amazing to take gold," said Cook. > > "Aaron has proved once again that he is more than capable of competing on the > world's biggest stage" > Gary Hall - GB performance director > > "I knew that an opponent with his experience was always going to be tough but > I never doubted my ability." > > Lopez, 31, has won medals at the last three Olympic Games, with gold in Sydney > and Athens, then bronze in Beijing, and won his fifth world title in > Copenhagen last month. > > But he could not reply to a spectacular, falling double kick from Cook, which > left the veteran prone on the canvas. > > "We are thrilled with the result, not only because he beat an all time great > but also the manner of the victory," said GB performance director Gary Hall. > > "Lopez is one of the sport's most successful athletes of recent times and > Aaron has proved once again that he is more than capable of competing on the > world's biggest stage." > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. > Standard disclaimers apply. > > Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:10:46 -0800 (PST) From: Pat Shaw To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New Dojang Owner Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greeting's to all Instructors and Students of Korean Martial Arts.  My name is Patrick A Shaw, I am a 2ND Dan and I will be starting a Dojang in Central Iowa, (Central Iowa TKD Academy) and  I am excited to teach in my own place.It has Ben my goal for many years. As I am new to this, I would welcome all Advise that any of you can offer to me. My school will open the week of thanksgiving. If you have advise for me please Email citkda@yahoo.com......                                                      With gratitude                                                      Patrick A Shaw --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:57:38 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lopez K.O. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know that this is "Olympic Style" sparring and the competitor's arms might as well be tassels on a flag pole. And yes, I know that this is where we are right now to be popular on the world stage but, if I fell down while trying to kick a guy in the head, even if I actually knocked him out, his buddies would stomp me into the mud while I lay there. I would like to see the rules changed to reflect a valid point awarded only if the attacker stays on their feet and stays in control of their body. Can we interject a little reality here? Or, can we call it foot tag instead of Tae Kwon Do? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:27:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lopez K.O. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm not with all the hands down stuff either but a KO is a KO. Real fights are as stable as we'd like them to be. At best what each competitor should do when/if they stumble or fall down is to get back to a stable position as if "the buddies" are coming. Hey maybe that could be a new rule, if you kick someone and you fall down you have to be back to your feet within 5 seconds for the strike, KO, etc to count. what do ya think?   Jye --- On Tue, 11/17/09, Gordon Okerstrom wrote: From: Gordon Okerstrom Subject: [The_Dojang] Lopez K.O. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 9:57 AM I know that this is "Olympic Style" sparring and the competitor's arms might as well be tassels on a flag pole.  And yes, I know that this is where we are right now to be popular on the world stage but, if I fell down while trying to kick a guy in the head, even if I actually knocked him out, his buddies would stomp me into the mud while I lay there.  I would like to see the rules changed to reflect a valid point awarded only if the attacker stays on their feet and stays in control of their body.  Can we interject a little reality here?  Or, can we call it foot tag instead of Tae Kwon Do? Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gordon Okerstrom" To: Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:59:36 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sacrifice Fall for Attack Sake Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Maybe, 1 or 2 seconds, not 5. Enough time for a summersault or, get to your hands and feet under you to stand again. If you need 5 seconds you would be doomed. Still though, the ground is a bad place to be in a fight. When we hold tournaments, the point is not awarded if the attacker fails to keep control or falls after an attack. This has cut down on the spectacular jumping spinning kicks, what makes TKD fascinating to the spectator, and we see less Capoeira competitors too. Is that a bad thing? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sacrifice Fall for Attack Sake From: James O'Connor Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:37:19 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think WTF sparring and indeed most forms of sparring competition are so far removed from a true attack scenario, especially a multi-person encounter, that to a quibble on whether falling while kicking should be penalized is a bit of missing the big picture. I mean, half the finishing moves in BJJ put you in a very vulnerable position to have your head punted, if the guy has friends. In sparring, the idea is to score points, in life the idea is to go home safely at night. The multi-attacker possibility is a perfect example of where the difference between 'sparring' and 'life' is illustrated. As I saw it though, the final knockout kick was not from a sacrifice, he was falling anyway. An as far as I can remember, in WTF sparring, if you throw a technique that intentionally takes you to the ground, you are penalized in some way (half point? don't remember...) Take care, Jay On Nov 17, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Gordon Okerstrom wrote: > you have to be back to your feet within 5 seconds for the strike, KO, etc to > count. what do ya think? > > Jye> > > Maybe, 1 or 2 seconds, not 5. Enough time for a summersault or, get to your > hands and feet under you to stand again. If you need 5 seconds you would be > doomed. Still though, the ground is a bad place to be in a fight. When we > hold tournaments, the point is not awarded if the attacker fails to keep > control or falls after an attack. This has cut down on the spectacular > jumping spinning kicks, what makes TKD fascinating to the spectator, and we > see less Capoeira competitors too. Is that a bad thing? > > Gordon Okerstrom > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,500 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource. > Standard disclaimers apply. > > Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. > > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lopez K.O. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor.E.Dodge@jci.com Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:14:50 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With all due respect, his "buddies" were not there to back him up, therefore the technique he used (successfully) is valid. If you are confronted, one-on-one, you can employ different techniques. Who can say what actual self-defense techniques he knows based on a sparring match. "Interject a little reality," like removing the protective gear, I mean who wears a mouth piece on the street, right!?! How about random objects to be used as weapons? Maybe you can sneak up behind him before he's in the ring and get in a sucker punch or two. The point I'm trying to make here, is that Tae Kwon Do sparring is just that: a sparring competition for points. This is no life-or-death situation. IMHO there are enough rules to sparring, already. Let's not restrict the players too much or creativity suffers. Sincerely, Victor Dodge > his > buddies would stomp me into the mud while I lay there. I would like to see > the rules changed to reflect a valid point awarded only if the attacker > stays on their feet and stays in control of their body. Can we interject a > little reality here? Or, can we call it foot tag instead of Tae Kwon Do? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2009: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest